"If no one talks about it, there is a lot of room for extreme opinions"

By Melody HansenLex Kleren Switch to German for original article

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Faran Livneh was born in Israel and grew up in Luxembourg. The young mother has been living in Israel for almost four years now. There she is committed to peace between Israelis and Palestinians. In the interview, Faran talks about how she perceived the tensions as a teenager, how she experienced the bombings in May 2021 and why she believes that lasting peace is possible.

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The Israeli-Palestinian ‘Conflict’ has culminated in a new crisis: what started as protests over evictions of Palestinian families in Israeli occupied East Jerusalem escalated into riots and the eventual storming of the al-Aqsa compound, Islam’s third holiest site, by Israeli security forces. Protests and counter-protests soon spread to various cities inside Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories. The al-Aqsa incident became the trigger for terrorist-group Hamas to start firing thousands of rockets into Israel from the Gaza Strip. This triggered a military response by Israel over eleven days in May, resulting in the deaths of at least 13 Israelis and 256 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip alone. Thousands got injured and were rendered homeless, and recovery work is ongoing under expectations of a possible new war.

Even if most of the thousands of rockets shot from Gaza were intercepted by Israel’s Iron Dome missile defence system, their unprecedented range struck terror into places usually farther removed from the realities of the occupation. Both sides have been accused of potential war crimes for the use of indiscriminate rockets and the disproportionate use of force against civil infrastructure and lives. Next to the lasting trauma for Israelis and Palestinians, and the slow violence of the blockade of Gaza rendering life in it near unbearable, a political solution remains elusive. The underlying tensions around the evictions from the Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood continue unresolved, as do most negotiations between parties, and the lack of progress on a two-State solution. Hardliners on both sides continue provocations that may cause new bouts of violence.

In an attempt to understand the human side and cost to these events, we spoke to Wafaa, a Palestinian refugee from Gaza in Luxembourg, and Faran, an Israeli-Luxembourgish woman living in Israel. Both are engaged in grassroots peace-building by bringing Palestinians and Israelis together to overcome their differences, and their life stories reveal much about what the ‘conflict’ looks like beyond abstract statistics of death and suffering.

Lëtzebuerger Journal: You were born in Israel and grew up in Luxembourg. Tell us about it.

Faran Livneh: My father is Israeli and my mother is Luxembourgish. After they met and married in Israel, they lived briefly in Luxembourg, where my big sister was born. Then they moved to Israel, where I was born. When I was two and a half years old, my parents got divorced and I moved back to Luxembourg with my sister and my mother. So I grew up and went to school here. During my childhood, I went to visit my father in Israel three times a year. During the Christmas and Easter holidays and one month in the summer. My father only spoke Hebrew with us, so I have a perfect command of the language. I was only there for the holidays, but experienced a lot. Now that I live in Israel, of course, I realise that it's something else again.

"I felt like the more I learn about the whole conflict, the less I know."

Faran Livneh

Almost four years ago you decided to move to Israel. How did this happen?

I always knew that at some point I wanted to live in Israel for a while to find out if I liked it there. In July 2017, when I was just starting to live in Berlin, my grandma died in Israel. That hit me hard, which was weird because we never had a particularly close relationship. I still felt the need to go there and participate in the traditional Jewish mourning period. Before that, I kind of always had a love-hate relationship with Israel. But when I came back this time, for the first time in my life I felt that I was home. I went back to Berlin afterwards, but there I felt like I was stuck. So I bought a one-way ticket to Israel without a plan. And then I met the future father of my son. It became quickly clear to me that I wanted to live with him in Israel. So I moved there in December, to Jaffa, a district of Tel Aviv.

You said before our conversation that you were afraid to give this interview. What are you afraid of?

I have the feeling that nobody knows the truth in this discussion. There is also no single truth. There are so many stories from one side and the other. My fear is that I will come across as arguing too much for or against a certain side – and that I might be attacked from both sides for it. At the same time, I think it's important to talk about it and educate people. In doing so, it is important to try to approach it with as much humility as possible. Because if no one talks about it because no one dares, there is a lot of room left for extreme opinions.

You recently founded the Facebook group "Israeli and Palestinian Women Believing in Peace". What goal do you want to achieve with this?

I have felt throughout my life that I want to do something for peace. I have always felt concerned. You can't help it if you're Israeli or Palestinian, because you're always being asked about it, even from the outside. I have had to justify myself so many times. I remember having heated discussions with two boys – both Muslims – when I was 13 and still attending lyceum. Despite the discussions, these two boys were part of my closest friends for a long time. And we still have a warm and respectful relationship with each other. Somehow, the subject just connected us. Such discussions have been going on throughout my life. When I was 19 or 20, I had enough. I also felt like the more I learn about the whole conflict, the less I know. I felt a certain hopelessness that lasted for a relatively long time.

What was the trigger for you to start dealing with the subject again?

When I lived in Berlin, my interest slowly returned. I think that's also because Germany has another connection to it. There, the people I met often had very strong opinions. They were either very pro-Israel or extremely anti-Israel. As a result, I had to deal more with the problem and the different perspectives and criticisms. It also became clear to me at that point: if I lived in Israel, I could be more active with peace efforts.

So you felt you had to live there to do something?

Exactly. But I always had the feeling that if someone didn't grow up in Israel and lived there, that's a reason for Israelis not to take you seriously. They say it's easy to talk about it when you haven't experienced it every day. Israelis are generally very defensive because it is a very sensitive topic.

Yet you have always been aware of many things …

Yes. I remember the first Intifada, when I was eight or nine years old. That was the time when buses and restaurants were blown up. We spent the holidays at my father's place as usual. We were in town and I really wanted to eat spaghetti in a certain restaurant, but my sister preferred falafel. We argued, my sister won and we went to eat falafel. I was cranky, of course. All of a sudden we heard a heavy explosion and the restaurant where I wanted to eat spaghetti was blown up. Children were also killed. What I want to say here is: it's not as if I don't know what it means to live in Israel and to experience and suffer the consequences of the conflict. But because of the feedback I got from Israelis, I was still cautious all the time. I knew I had to have lived here longer to be taken seriously by them.

The First Intifada

You have been living there for almost four years now and were also there during the eleven days in May when bombs fell. How did you experience this time?

For us, it came out of nowhere. I am aware that people in Gaza suffer every day, but for us the development was very surprising. Especially in Tel Aviv, we live in a sort of bubble. Here it is possible to live your life and pretend that nothing is happening. All of a sudden, the sirens were turned on in the middle of the night. I wasn't prepared at all because I don't watch the news that often. It was the first time in my life that I experienced something like that. I didn't know what to do at all. It was one o'clock in the night, I was in my room and my son Ari was asleep. I didn't know if we had a shelter in the house, if I should wake up my son, if I should stay inside. After the sirens sound, you only have a few minutes to decide. If you're not in the shelter by then, at worst you'll be on the street when bombs fall. It was a tough situation.

What happened next?

My father wrote me immediately. He said that my bedroom, where my son also slept that night, was relatively protected. It's in the middle of the flat on the ground floor and there are high-rise buildings around it. If a rocket flew past, it would hit a tower block first. So whenever rockets flew, I stayed in that exact room. I didn't want to wake up my son so as not to traumatise him. It was really intense two weeks.

You said that people live peacefully together in Jaffa. Was that also the case in May?

It is true that Jews and Palestinian Arabs live together peacefully in Jaffa. That's why I live here and like living here. However, during the bombings there were many riots. Arabs lynched Jews and Jews lynched Arabs. My family didn't dare to leave the house. I hardly left my house for a week. After that, I only ever went out of the house for a very short time, when it was light, to do the most important things. That was a wake-up call for me.

May clashes

So your desire to do something became stronger again?

Yes. But I didn't really know what exactly to do. I talked about it a lot with my partner. Because I do family constellation therapy where systemic conflict within families is bridged through meditated exchange, I had the idea to do it with Palestinian and Israeli women.

Why only with women?

In my work I organise women's circles and I believe in the power of women coming together. I also believe that women have a higher emotional intelligence to talk about things more calmly and respectfully. In my experience, the energy in discussions where both men and women participate is often generally very aggressive. Also in the peace groups that exist on Facebook. In general, I have noticed that in these groups, women who have a gentler manner don't even get to speak or don't dare to say anything.

Why is it so difficult to implement such a family constellation with Palestinian and Israeli women?

There are Palestinian women in Israel who are also Israeli. Meeting them is easy. But there are also Palestinian women living in Gaza or parts of the West Bank who are not allowed into Israel. Neither are we allowed to see them. That's super crazy. Most Palestinians who are under 30 have never met an Israeli. Except maybe a soldier who shot their father in a confrontation – and then that's the image they have of us.

So the idea of a Facebook group emerged?

My partner reminded me that the internet exists. (laughs) So I started posting in several groups on Facebook that I was organising Zoom calls. I got a lot of feedback to that. To keep track of them, I started a Facebook group. It took a while until the first call happened, because I wanted to wait until Palestinian women also got in touch. After all, it was supposed to be an exchange.

Was the first Zoom call successful?

Yes. There were seven or eight of us, including only one Palestinian woman who lives in Gaza. She lost her one-month-old baby in a bomb attack in 2014, during the last war. Her father also died of cancer. Israel does let people in to visit the hospital, but they need a passport to do so. This involves a lot of bureaucracy. Her father waited for this passport for a year and when he finally got it, it was too late. The cancer had already spread in his body. This young woman has lost two loved ones because of the situation. She is a teacher, but the school where she works was bombed, so she cannot work at the moment. She lives in an iron house where it is super warm – no air conditioning. All this is not comparable to the situation of us Israeli women who have been listening. No matter what your opinion is, there is a huge difference between living in Gaza and living here. Although there is also a lot of trauma and it is definitely not easy, for example compared to people living in Luxembourg. But compared to people from Gaza, we live extremely privileged.

The Gaza Strip

In addition, Palestinians are forbidden by Hamas to speak with Israelis, right?

Exactly. It's extremely dangerous for them. If Hamas finds out that a Palestinian woman is in contact with Israelis, she can go to prison or worse. That's why she doesn't use her real name on Facebook but the name of her daughter who was killed. It was extremely brave of her to participate in this Zoom call. She said during the interview that we were the first Israelis she had met in her life and that she was very happy to see that there were good people among us. She thought we all hated her and wanted to kill all the Palestinians. Hearing that from her made me proud to have started this group.

Hamas and Palestinians in Gaza

How differently do generations deal with the ongoing tense situation in Israel and Palestine?

Since the second and last Intifada in 1996, there has been a blatant separation. At that time, a wall was built through and around the West Bank with strict checkpoints. Since then, you can no longer drive back and forth. My partner is nine years older than me. He tells me that when he was young, he used to go with his friends to the occupied Palestinian territories to get their motorbikes repaired. They had friends there who owned a workshop. Back then, there was much more contact with each other. Our generation, on the other hand, is growing up in fear and hatred – on both sides.

Where does this fear and hatred come from from the perspective of an Israeli?

I think it's more fear than hate. If you talk to Israelis, you quickly find out that they want peace. However, they think the hatred of the other side, especially Hamas, is so great that they won't stop until all the Jews are out of the country. They think they have to be protected. That sounds absurd to the other side. But it is the overwhelming feeling in Israel. Then there is a strong hatred on the part of the Palestinians. Children learn there: everything that is unjust and everything that is not going well in your life is the fault of Israelis. Which is also not the whole truth.

"There are facts and it is a fact that Israel has more power and therefore creates more inequality. But to say that there is a good side and a bad side is an oversimplification."

Faran Livneh

When you lived in Luxembourg and Berlin, how did you experience media reports?

I think that in Germany there is often more pro-Israel reporting. Also because of German history. In Luxembourg, I have rather the opposite feeling. What scares us Jews is that anti-Zionism triggers a lot of anti-Semitism. I think it's extremely important to always try to see a bridge, a middle ground and both sides. It's not black or white. There are facts and it is a fact that Israel has more power and therefore creates more inequality. But to say that there is a good side and a bad side is an oversimplification. Everything has its reasons, everything is intertwined. Zionism is, in my opinion, one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented words there is. I can be a Zionist – that is to believe that Jews have a right to live in historic Judea, a right to self-determination, security and freedom – and at the same time want Palestinians to have exactly the same rights. This is not contradictory, although it is often presented as such, both by right-wing Israelis who use and distort Zionism as an excuse, and by anti-Israel propaganda.

So you see yourself as a Zionist?

Yes, in the sense described above, I definitely identify as a Zionist. The problem is that the word has a very negative connotation, which is why I often don't dare to say it. But only if I do I can change this misunderstanding.

Antisemitism and Antizionism

And there is a political agenda behind it …

… which is often absolutely not interested in peace at all. I have no doubt, for example, that "Bibi" Netanyahu, who was prime minister for far too long, is not interested in peace. He wants money and power but peace has no worth for him. Hamas in Gaza doesn't want peace either and in my opinion is not interested in the welfare of the Palestinians. That is sad. Above all, the people suffer twice. They suffer under an Israeli occupation and under a leadership that is absolutely not interested in their welfare. This is shown by this blatant dictatorship in Gaza alone, which says that they are not even allowed to be in contact with an Israeli. Let's not even start talking about women's rights. That is also a truth. I think it's important that whoever talks about it also makes it clear.

Do you have the feeling that people in Luxembourg are informed about all this?

No. For me it is always difficult – and I think for many – to meet such strong opinions from Europe all at once. No matter whether from Luxembourg, Germany, France or elsewhere. Someone says, for example, "Yes, you have stolen land." And I am thinking: "Come to Israel, make friends with both sides, do research, read about it – and if you think you can have an opinion, ok." But I was born there, I experienced all these things, I was in the West Bank and I still don't have an opinion. My only opinion is that I want peace and I want to try to somehow do something in that direction. For some reason, this is an issue that people have a very strong opinion on, even though they don't necessarily have an insight. It's extremely difficult. I also think that expressing strong opinions is an extremely male way of approaching things. Now that more and more women are being empowered, getting higher positions and having more say, that is changing. That is why I believe that it will be women who will achieve peace here.

"I was born there, I experienced all these things, I was in the West Bank and I still don't have an opinion. My only opinion is that I want peace."

Faran Livneh

What role is social media playing in the conflict this time?

Social media definitely plays a huge role. Whether this is good or bad, I don't know either. Of course it's heavy when you see videos of children suffering. Videos where Jews are screaming, that Arabs should die or where Arabs are screaming, that Jews should die. But does that give the right impression? It's important that people see what's going on here, on the other hand they don't see everything.

What do you think they don't see?

My son attends a day care centre run by an Arab-Jewish couple. He is a Palestinian who grew up in Israel and she is a religious Jew. He hated Jews when he was young. She on her side grew up in fear. They fell in love and realised they had been brainwashed their whole lives. Now they have three sons and they have started a daycare centre where they teach Arabic and Hebrew and celebrate Jewish, Muslim and Christian festivals. These things don't make it to social media. Maybe I would have to post a video of four-year-old Jewish and Palestinian Israelis playing together. But racism is of course also a reality.

As a consequence, there is a movement right now that says: "No, we are Palestinians and Israelis and that is also possible". They are in between. They feel strongly connected to the Palestinian people, but on the other hand they also feel Israeli because they live here, they speak Hebrew and so they are not completely at home in either community. Officially, Palestinians and Israelis have the same rights – with a few exceptions that are justified by the Israeli side as protective measures. There are Arabs in high positions who are judges or doctors. Theoretically, they could be equal. In practice, this is definitely not the case and there are many problems. For example, what I don't understand is that there are almost no public schools that are mixed. That doesn't do anyone any good. But there is also a lot of cooperation. Despite all the inequalities, Israel has its good sides. It is a democracy and there are newspapers that are extremely left-wing and completely positioned against the government. There are also many peace movements inside Israel. A relatively new movement that makes me very hopeful is called Standing together. Many Jewish and Palestinian Israelis have joined together to show the government and the world that they refuse to be enemies and stand together for equal rights and peace.

So there is potential to live together peacefully?

I feel like I have to believe in it.

What solution do you see that could end all this? Could a two-state solution work and if so, what would that look like?

I think about it a lot and haven't made up my mind a 100 per cent. Maybe I will change my mind. But my personal favourite solution would be a common country. Maybe also a kind of federation: two states with a common capital. The fear that Jewish Israelis have when there is talk of a common state is that we will lose our identity. We are a blatant minority. If all the borders are opened up, there will be a much smaller percentage of Jews here than Arabs. We are afraid of being hated again, then discriminated against and killed at some point. That's why there is this extreme clinging to Israel. It is the only country we have ever had where we were not hated and killed. Where we are safe.

The past and future of a Palestinian state

But you still believe that a common country is possible?

I think we have established ourselves enough. Both in language and culture and in politics. One idea I have would be that in parliament there must be 50 per cent Jews and 50 per cent Arabs. That this should be written into the constitution that it is impossible for one side to ever become more powerful than the other. That is my vision and my hope. For many it is a utopia, but I want to believe in it. It may be that there have to be two states first. However, I am absolutely against Jews being kicked out of the occupied territories – I am against settlements – and brought back to Israel and all the Arabs who are here being sent back to Palestine. That would tear society apart.